nedoPC.org

Community of electronics hobbyists established in 2002

...
Atom Feed | View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently 19 Dec 2018 07:40



Reply to topic  [ 93 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
6502 ua6527p RP2A03(07) вопрос 
Author Message
Retired
User avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011 01:14
Posts: 1337
Location: WWW
Reply with quote
предыстория - хочется очень смастерить Apple ][ на макетке, к сожалению 6502 не продаются на каждом углу. а вот старые 8-битки в рабоче-крестьянской среде стоят примерно одно пиво.
ну с распиновкой понятно - гугл помог. смущает наличие на борту звукового синтезатора.
собственно вопрос - если выходы синтеза не подключать, можно ли использовать эти контроллеры вместо 6502? про отсутствие десятичного режима знаю.

P.S. да, я такой, не ограничиваю себя поделиями от Intel ;)


18 Aug 2011 07:28
Profile
Admin
User avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2003 00:22
Posts: 17240
Location: Colorado
Reply with quote
Post 
ищи не только 6502, но и 65C02 (в штатах и то, и другое до сих пор продаётся)
у 65C02 правда система команд поширше и фирменных глюков нет

_________________
:eugeek: https://twitter.com/Shaos1973


18 Aug 2011 07:50
Profile WWW
Retired
User avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011 01:14
Posts: 1337
Location: WWW
Reply with quote
Post 
http://www.maniacworld.com/game_console ... apple2.htm

65C02 был в более поздних моделях. в АГАТ-9 стоял мексиканский или индийский 6502, если мне память не изменяет. и еще цена вопроса - за 25 денег можно поиметь кучу консолей, в которых кроме процессора будут слотовые разъемы и микросхемы SRAM.

алсо интересен сам факт возможности использования консольного процессора. смущает отсутствие десятичного режима и наличие звука на борту, хотя...


Last edited by MC68k on 24 Dec 2013 21:43, edited 1 time in total.



19 Aug 2011 09:27
Profile
Banned
User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2005 14:41
Posts: 2150
Location: От туда
Reply with quote
Post 
Чип Имаджес делал декап и после распознавания даже визуальный симулятор. Там же я находил анализ фотки кристалла, где говорилось, что пин ¹30 позволяет отключить внутренний pAPU (на землю - включено в 4000h-4017h, +5в - выключено).


Last edited by HardWareMan on 05 Jan 2014 07:32, edited 1 time in total.



19 Aug 2011 11:45
Profile
Retired
User avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011 01:14
Posts: 1337
Location: WWW
Reply with quote
Post 
предлагаю поменять статус HardWareMan "God" на "Genius" :)

читал несколько разных описаний 2А03, везде "30pin на землю, назначение unknown". например вот это:
Code:
NES CPU (NTSC)
RP2A03G / RP2A03H
By Eli Dayan
               _____   _____
              |     \_/     |
       SND1 - | 01       40 | - +5V (Vcc)
       SND2 - | 02       39 | - STROBE (joypad)
       /RST - | 03       38 | - EXT 44
         A0 - | 04       37 | - EXT 45
         A1 - | 05       36 | - /OE (joypad 0)
         A2 - | 06       35 | - /OE (joypad 1)
         A3 - | 07       34 | - R/W
         A4 - | 08       33 | - /NMI
         A5 - | 09       32 | - /IRQ
         A6 - | 10       31 | - M2
         A7 - | 11       30 | - GND*
         A8 - | 12       29 | - CLK
         A9 - | 13       28 | - D0
        A10 - | 14       27 | - D1
        A11 - | 15       26 | - D2
        A12 - | 16       25 | - D3
        A13 - | 17       24 | - D4
        A14 - | 18       23 | - D5
        A15 - | 19       22 | - D6
        GND - | 20       21 | - D7
              |_____________|

Considerations:
---------------
- there is NO decimal mode on the 2A03
- SND1 is the output for square waves 1 & 2.
- SND2 is the output for triangle, noise, and DMC.
- CLK is the NES master clock @ 21.47727 MHz
- M2 is clocked at 1/2 the NTSC colorburst.  This signal is divided (by 12)
  internally by the CPU and coincides with the CPU's clock speed of
  1.7897725 MHz.
- All memory access occurs when M2 is high (/CE is low on a ROM)
- EXT 44 and EXT 45 connect to the expansion connector pins 44 and 45 respectively.
- STROBE (joypad) is connected to STA $4016 D0
- /OE (joypads) is low during reads
- GND* is tied low but may be the source of some signal


тогда все проще, остается вопрос о десятичном режиме, если он в яблоках не используется, то дело сделано. алсо можно будет сделать Apple ][ разогнанный(1,78 или больше,в оригинале 1МГц)


Last edited by MC68k on 24 Dec 2013 21:43, edited 1 time in total.



19 Aug 2011 17:38
Profile
Banned
User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2005 14:41
Posts: 2150
Location: От туда
Reply with quote
Post 
MC68k wrote:
предлагаю поменять статус HardWareMan "God" на "Genius" :)

Мне звания не надо. Мне хватит МД1. :3


Last edited by HardWareMan on 05 Jan 2014 07:34, edited 1 time in total.



19 Aug 2011 23:30
Profile
Retired
User avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011 01:14
Posts: 1337
Location: WWW
Reply with quote
Post 
HardWareMan wrote:
MC68k wrote:
предлагаю поменять статус HardWareMan "God" на "Genius" :)

Мне звания не надо. Мне хватит МД1. :3

не волнуйся много - это вредно. будет тебе мегадрайв, год имеет значение? :)


20 Aug 2011 02:29
Profile
Banned
User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2005 14:41
Posts: 2150
Location: От туда
Reply with quote
Post 
MC68k wrote:
HardWareMan wrote:
MC68k wrote:
предлагаю поменять статус HardWareMan "God" на "Genius" :)

Мне звания не надо. Мне хватит МД1. :3

не волнуйся много - это вредно. будет тебе мегадрайв, год имеет значение? :)

Меня привлек экземпляр с EXT с зади и 315хххх чипсет.


Last edited by HardWareMan on 05 Jan 2014 07:34, edited 1 time in total.



20 Aug 2011 03:13
Profile
Retired
User avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011 01:14
Posts: 1337
Location: WWW
Reply with quote
Post 
а что в 315ххх чипсете такого особого?


20 Aug 2011 04:28
Profile
Retired
User avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011 01:14
Posts: 1337
Location: WWW
Reply with quote
Post 
http://apple2history.org/history/ah03/
http://www.easy68k.com/paulrsm/6502/index.html
вроде как десятичный режим 6502 не используется, значит система должна взлететь.

маленький исторический экскурс или почему я люблю "старые яблоки".
первый текстовый редактор, первые электронные таблицы, легко расширяем. :D

http://www.downloads.reactivemicro.com/ ... /Hardware/ :o


Last edited by MC68k on 24 Dec 2013 21:44, edited 1 time in total.



20 Aug 2011 05:21
Profile
Banned
User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2005 14:41
Posts: 2150
Location: От туда
Reply with quote
Post 
MC68k wrote:
а что в 315ххх чипсете такого особого?

Ничего особого. Просто оригинальность.


Last edited by HardWareMan on 05 Jan 2014 07:34, edited 1 time in total.



20 Aug 2011 07:29
Profile
Retired
User avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011 01:14
Posts: 1337
Location: WWW
Reply with quote
Post 
а джойстики 30-я нога тоже запрещает? то есть получается, если 30pin на +5, то 2А03 будет 6502 без десятичного режима?


20 Aug 2011 17:45
Profile
Banned
User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2005 14:41
Posts: 2150
Location: От туда
Reply with quote
Post 
Всю встроенную периферию. Но, правда, есть одно "но": когда я ставил опыты над 6527 на своем дендике, то отпайка от земли этой ноги роняла проц, который даже F2 не тыркал. А подсоединение назад его оживляло. Что натолкнуло меня на то, что этот сигнал нечто типо RDY или BUSR. Может, у клона (6527) и у оригинала (2А03) разная реализация этой ноги?


Last edited by HardWareMan on 05 Jan 2014 07:35, edited 1 time in total.



20 Aug 2011 21:23
Profile
Retired
User avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011 01:14
Posts: 1337
Location: WWW
Reply with quote
Post 
31-я нога это только выход или может быть входом? может быть 30-я нога отключает не только периферию, но и встроенный прескалер? если так, то легким движением руки 2А03 превращается в 6502. это заодно объясняет, почему проц переставал шевелиться.

посадил сокет на макетку а дальше как-то страшновато, не сгубить бы.

P.S. http://www.cpushack.com/CPU/cpu1.html
Quote:
Part V: The 650x, Another Direction (1975) . . .
Shortly after Intel's 8080, Motorola introduced the 6800. Some of the designers (notably Chuck Peddle) left to start MOS Technologies (later bought by Commodore), which introduced the 650x series which included the 6501 (pin compatible with the 6800, taken off the market almost immediately for legal reasons) and the 6502 (used in early Commodores, Apples and Ataris). Like the 6800 series, varients were produced which added features like I/O ports (6510 in the Commodore 64) or reduced costs with smaller address buses (6507 13-bit 8K address bus in the Atari 2600). The 650x was little endian (lower address byte could be added to an index register while higher byte was fetched) and had a completely different instruction set from the big endian 6800. Apple designer Steve Wozniak described it as the first chip you could get for less than a hundred dollars (actually a quarter of the 6800 price) - it became the CPU of choice for many early home computers (8 bit Commodore and Atari products).

Unlike the 8080 and its kind, the 6502 (and 6800) had very few registers. It was an 8 bit processor, with 16 bit address bus. Inside was one 8 bit data register, two 8 bit index registers, and an 8 bit stack pointer (stack was preset from address 256 ($100 hex) to 511 ($1FF)). It used these index and stack registers effectively, with more addressing modes, including a fast zero-page mode that accessed memory addresses from address 0 to 255 ($FF) with an 8-bit address that speeded operations (it didn't have to fetch a second byte for the address).

Back when the 6502 was introduced, RAM was actually faster than microprocessors, so it made sense to optimize for RAM access rather than increase the number of registers on a chip. It also had a lower gate count (and cost) than its competitors.

The 650x also had undocumented instructions, including JAM, which simply causes the CPU to freeze, requiring a hardware reset or power cycle to restart.

The CMOS 65C02/65C02S fixed some original 6502 design flaws, and the 65816 (officially W65C816S, both designed by Bill Mensch of Western Design Center Inc.) extended the 650x to 16 bits internally, including index and stack registers, with a 16-bit direct page register (similar to the 6809), and 24-bit address bus (16 bit registers plus 8 bit data/program bank registers). It included an 8-bit emulation mode. Microcontroller versions of both exist, and a 32-bit version (the 65832) is planned. Various licensed versions are supplied by GTE (16 bit G65SC802 (pin compatible with 6502), and G65SC816 (support for VM, I/D cache, and multiprocessing)) and Rockwell (R65C40), and Mitsubishi has a redesigned compatible version. The 6502 remains surprisingly popular largely because of the variety of sources and support for it.

The 6502-based Apple II line (not backwards compatible with the Apple I) was among the first microcomputers introduced and became the longest running PC line, eventually including the 65816-based Apple IIgs The 6502 was also used in the Nintendo entertainment system (NES), and the 65816 was in the 16-bit successor, the Super NES, before Nintendo switched to MIPS embedded processors.
......
The 6800 and 6809, like the 6502 series, used a single clock cycle to generate the timing for four internal execution stages by using the rising and falling edges of the base cycle (not just rising edges), and another clock 90 degrees out of phase (giving two rising and two falling edges per cycle) - this allowed instructions to execute in one external 'cycle' rather than four for most CPUs, such as the 8080, which used the external clock directly, so an equivalent instruction would take four cycles, meaning a 2MHz 6809 would be roughly equivalent to a 8MHz 8080. This is different from clock-doubling, which uses a phase-locked-loop to generate a faster internal clock (for the CPU) which is synchronised with an external clock (for the bus). Motorola later produced CPUs in this line with a standard four-cycle clock. The 680x and 650x only accessed memory every other cycle, allowing a peripheral (such as video, or even a second cpu) to access the same memory without conflict.


Last edited by MC68k on 24 Dec 2013 21:44, edited 2 times in total.



25 Aug 2011 08:26
Profile
Banned
User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2005 14:41
Posts: 2150
Location: От туда
Reply with quote
Post 
ВНЕЗАПНО на HESDEV WIKI:
Quote:
30 - IOE (usually GND)

* * *
IOE (tentative name) (pin 30) is special: normally it is grounded in the NES, Famicom, PC10/VS. NES and other Nintendo Arcade Boards (Popeye and Donkey Kong 3), but if it is pulled high, all of the memory-mapped I/O ports (APU/Serial Controller area at $4000-$4015) are disabled, and the chip acts like a 'normal' 6502, just without decimal mode and with the pinout and clock divider of an RP2A03/RP2A07. (What effect does this have on controller ports at $4016/$4017, and how does it interact with $4018-$401A?)


PS Сега-Сега, все любят Сега! :3


Last edited by HardWareMan on 05 Jan 2014 07:39, edited 1 time in total.



30 Aug 2011 03:53
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 93 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software.